Mostly for Micro Brands, but with the occasional mass market item
Over the last few years I've become more interested in watches, mostly those produced by smaller or as they are known Micro Brands and especially mechanical variants. As I type this I currently own half a dozen and the most expensive one I've purchased has been $299 + plus import duty and handling charges (the Zelos Bronze Sword Fish Diver) and the cheapest £149 (the Gackota K-01 Pilot style) and these will be the first two I review. I will also include my thoughts on the company supplying the watch and any issues I've had along the way. I don't intend these to be overly in-depth, just running to between 750-1,500 words, but as always feel free to use the Contact Me form if you wish to ask something specific and I'll respond personally by email and if interesting, add it to the review as an update.
Generally pictures of these watches and some others can be seen in my Watches Gallery Page.
Generally pictures of these watches and some others can be seen in my Watches Gallery Page.
You can 'click' on the pictures below to open the reviews written.
Lets talk about watches...
Micro-brands & Chinese Specials - what can be the issues?
I was watching a YouTube video put out by Jody of the watch review channel "Just One More Watch" about the choices open to you if for instance you wanted a Flieger style watch - here he was reviewing a Chinese brand San Martin type 'B' dial one, which on the surface of it looks to be a great watch. At the end he asked the question, this San Martin, or a Laco Aachen, or a Seagull 1963 pilots watch. Now I'd already been through all this recently and bought a Laco and said so on the thread. Quite a few others went for Laco either as a potential choice or as an actual purchase. This prompted a bit of 'trolling' from one person in particular with the responses;
"With Miyota 821A movement which is the most garbage movement ever made. Good for you."
"If you choose Miyota 821A over Sellita SW200 and on top of that pay even more for it you are really stupid."
Now of course the Sellita is a great movement, but there is certainly nothing wrong with the Miyota, but the important point I was trying to make was that in choosing the Laco, you have a brand with heritage, history and support - a known quantity if you like. The other point I made was that if at some stage you want to sell your flieger style watch the Laco brand will be beneficial, but San Martin?
Also the warranty - is it actually worth having, if you have to send your watch back to China in the case of the San Martin, there will be an up front cost which you may never get back. There are some UK & European based micro-brands so I'd certainly err towards them, but even the Phoibos Wave Master I bought from Phoibos Europe (a UK depot) had to be returned to their Chinese repair centre. Then there's that cooling off period, where if you change your mind you can return the item - but of course you have to pay return postage & good luck getting back your import duty, taxes and administration fee you've paid to the courier company! I recently had to return a watch that was DOA, not a big issue as the company was great and everything was sorted very quickly, but I did get charged import duties and admin fees a second time when the replacement arrived and the process I'd have to have gone through to get this back seemed to me to be quite onerous and I don't think you can claim back the portion the courier company charge as admin fee (anybody tried this?) - should perhaps have been declared as a repair by the sender? Well I did have a watch that was shown to be exactly this on one senders custom declaration, this was held in customs until I could provide the relevant paper/email trail to prove this.
So sometimes you're perhaps better paying a bit more and buying these Far Eastern micro-brands from someone like Page & Cooper in the UK or Serious Watches who are based in the Netherlands, of course they don't handle every available micro-brand, but do check them out as well. I've also bought three watches from Geckota/WatchGecko, who've always provided great service and value and now and again have superb sales, so do go to their website and look over the range on offer there.
The big positive or Unique Selling Point (USP) of a micro brand should be their willingness to do something different that many major manufacturers' perhaps wouldn't countenance; new materials, radical case designs or finishes and so on. Just check out some of the offerings from Zelos and you'll see what I mean, however the other side of the coin is all those rather boring Rolex Submariner clones, which don't have a shred of originality and just fulfil the need some people have to own a Rolex, but can't or won't stump up the readies and that's OK as far as it goes, but if you check out some eBay resales of micro brands some of those with limited production runs actually sell above and beyond their initial sales price - Zelos, Helm and a few others.
I was watching a YouTube video put out by Jody of the watch review channel "Just One More Watch" about the choices open to you if for instance you wanted a Flieger style watch - here he was reviewing a Chinese brand San Martin type 'B' dial one, which on the surface of it looks to be a great watch. At the end he asked the question, this San Martin, or a Laco Aachen, or a Seagull 1963 pilots watch. Now I'd already been through all this recently and bought a Laco and said so on the thread. Quite a few others went for Laco either as a potential choice or as an actual purchase. This prompted a bit of 'trolling' from one person in particular with the responses;
"With Miyota 821A movement which is the most garbage movement ever made. Good for you."
"If you choose Miyota 821A over Sellita SW200 and on top of that pay even more for it you are really stupid."
Now of course the Sellita is a great movement, but there is certainly nothing wrong with the Miyota, but the important point I was trying to make was that in choosing the Laco, you have a brand with heritage, history and support - a known quantity if you like. The other point I made was that if at some stage you want to sell your flieger style watch the Laco brand will be beneficial, but San Martin?
Also the warranty - is it actually worth having, if you have to send your watch back to China in the case of the San Martin, there will be an up front cost which you may never get back. There are some UK & European based micro-brands so I'd certainly err towards them, but even the Phoibos Wave Master I bought from Phoibos Europe (a UK depot) had to be returned to their Chinese repair centre. Then there's that cooling off period, where if you change your mind you can return the item - but of course you have to pay return postage & good luck getting back your import duty, taxes and administration fee you've paid to the courier company! I recently had to return a watch that was DOA, not a big issue as the company was great and everything was sorted very quickly, but I did get charged import duties and admin fees a second time when the replacement arrived and the process I'd have to have gone through to get this back seemed to me to be quite onerous and I don't think you can claim back the portion the courier company charge as admin fee (anybody tried this?) - should perhaps have been declared as a repair by the sender? Well I did have a watch that was shown to be exactly this on one senders custom declaration, this was held in customs until I could provide the relevant paper/email trail to prove this.
So sometimes you're perhaps better paying a bit more and buying these Far Eastern micro-brands from someone like Page & Cooper in the UK or Serious Watches who are based in the Netherlands, of course they don't handle every available micro-brand, but do check them out as well. I've also bought three watches from Geckota/WatchGecko, who've always provided great service and value and now and again have superb sales, so do go to their website and look over the range on offer there.
The big positive or Unique Selling Point (USP) of a micro brand should be their willingness to do something different that many major manufacturers' perhaps wouldn't countenance; new materials, radical case designs or finishes and so on. Just check out some of the offerings from Zelos and you'll see what I mean, however the other side of the coin is all those rather boring Rolex Submariner clones, which don't have a shred of originality and just fulfil the need some people have to own a Rolex, but can't or won't stump up the readies and that's OK as far as it goes, but if you check out some eBay resales of micro brands some of those with limited production runs actually sell above and beyond their initial sales price - Zelos, Helm and a few others.
What do I do when I get a new watch:
In response to me posting that I've received a watch and that the review will follow in about 5 days, I've had a couple of people asked what I do with the watch for those 5 days? Well, before I take off any of the stickers/wrapping (this only applies to automatics & of course mechanical watches) I put it in a winder for 24 hours. The winder is set to wind for 5 minutes then rest for 55 minutes, I don't set the watch, but set a known good watch to the time it is showing when it starts ticking - usually after the first 5 minutes on the winder. This is just to see if it is keeping reasonable time & lets be honest here the specified allowable tolerance's on some of these movements can be impressively poor, for example the Seiko NH35's & Miyota 852##'s being -20 to +40 seconds a day! Thankfully, the worst I've ever experienced has been a plus 10ish (always prefer a plus rather than a minus) so not anything I'd even worry about resetting for a couple of weeks.
After its done its 24hrs in the winder and I'm happy its working OK I fully unwrap, size up the bracelet (if fitted) then just wear it for about 5 days, sometimes overnight and sometime leaving it to rest overnight. There is of course the photography bit at some point. This wear period helps me decide if I like the strap/bracelet or if I'm going to change it, for some of course it gets changed before I begin to wear the watch as although I like the watch (wouldn't have bought it otherwise) but just dislike the supplied strap, this is just put to one side in the watch box supplied and will be put back on if I decide to later sell the watch. After the 5 days I reckon this is enough time for me to have formed an opinion of the watch and write one of my mini reviews.
The things I don't really like about watches and how they are supplied!
Packaging:
Well, after you've acquired a couple of watches which in themselves take up little or no room, you've got a draw/cupboard full of unused cubic boxes which take up loads of 'real-estate'. Now if you're like me, then your Obsessive/Compulsive Personality (OCP) naturally means you have to keep absolutely all the packaging so you just can't part with this stuff. Now one manufacturer did offer the option at the checkout to not having the watch box included, but as I didn't get a discount for this option, well I'm certainly going to order it with the box! One extreme example in my opinion are Omega, with their Speedmaster Moon Watch Chronograph which is supplied with a huge trunk of a case. The thing is if you have to return the watch for repair or service, you are asked NOT to include the original watch box most of the time as it just takes up too much space - well we know that as we've got a cupboard full of the things at home! Now, I do like quality packaging and if you're buying a reasonably costly item, you want something nice to unpack, but lets be honest does a watch actually need a large wooden box, a leather covered display box, or would people feel shortchanged if they got their watch in a decent cardboard box, with say a leather slip case? Having just unboxed my new Marloe Watch Company, Coniston 'Speed Edition' which had a really quite awesome presentation box it is a bit of a dilemma - as I really enjoyed opening this up to reveal the watch, but it was a large box for a small item...what do people think, is there a variable compromise point?
Fitted straps - bracelets:
Inside many of my watch boxes, I have the OEM fitted bracelet, which I no longer use on the watch it came with, unfortunately as they are usually fitted so well to the watch head, you can't use these on another watch, so for me a fitted bracelet isn't a value added selling feature, now if it came with straight end links so it could be used with another watch of a similar lug size, that would be a plus point!
Exhibition case-backs:
Question - is there something worth exhibiting? If the watch has a Seiko NH3- whatever, or Miyota 8### then probably not! Why do many makers have a display case-back to show you it is fitted with something essentially uninteresting? At least if there was a custom rotor, or something that was visually attractive, then yes, I'd like to see it, but in many cases I'd sooner have a plain solid case-back. Is it more cost effective to have a display back as opposed to a solid stainless steel one?
Complications:
Of course here I'm talking about those; Day, Date, Moon phase, Month & Year elements and so on.
When there is a cutout in the dial face to show these, very rarely do I feel they are well integrated and just look out of place. Some are too small to read, so they compound the issue by adding a magnifier (cyclops). Don't get me wrong, if I really liked the watch I'd get it irrespective, but I really do hate having to tell the watch at the end of the month that there aren't 31 days. Of course as always, there can be elegant solutions that I really wouldn't mind, the date pointer with the days of the month around the perimeter of the dial (as in the Oris Big Crown Pointer Date) I really don't mind at all, even though I'd still end up with the month end issue.
Obviously the Day, once set can be forgotten, but they are usually large and unattractive. As for moon phase, quite often I can look at the sky and see this for myself at night, but have to say I can't ever remember thinking to myself "I wonder what phase the moon will be in today" not ever, perhaps if I was a werewolf or concerned about potential werewolf activity.....
As for Month & Year, well I might need reminding of the date, but even though I'm getting on a bit and slightly forgetful I certainly have yet to forget the actual Month and Year!
In response to me posting that I've received a watch and that the review will follow in about 5 days, I've had a couple of people asked what I do with the watch for those 5 days? Well, before I take off any of the stickers/wrapping (this only applies to automatics & of course mechanical watches) I put it in a winder for 24 hours. The winder is set to wind for 5 minutes then rest for 55 minutes, I don't set the watch, but set a known good watch to the time it is showing when it starts ticking - usually after the first 5 minutes on the winder. This is just to see if it is keeping reasonable time & lets be honest here the specified allowable tolerance's on some of these movements can be impressively poor, for example the Seiko NH35's & Miyota 852##'s being -20 to +40 seconds a day! Thankfully, the worst I've ever experienced has been a plus 10ish (always prefer a plus rather than a minus) so not anything I'd even worry about resetting for a couple of weeks.
After its done its 24hrs in the winder and I'm happy its working OK I fully unwrap, size up the bracelet (if fitted) then just wear it for about 5 days, sometimes overnight and sometime leaving it to rest overnight. There is of course the photography bit at some point. This wear period helps me decide if I like the strap/bracelet or if I'm going to change it, for some of course it gets changed before I begin to wear the watch as although I like the watch (wouldn't have bought it otherwise) but just dislike the supplied strap, this is just put to one side in the watch box supplied and will be put back on if I decide to later sell the watch. After the 5 days I reckon this is enough time for me to have formed an opinion of the watch and write one of my mini reviews.
The things I don't really like about watches and how they are supplied!
Packaging:
Well, after you've acquired a couple of watches which in themselves take up little or no room, you've got a draw/cupboard full of unused cubic boxes which take up loads of 'real-estate'. Now if you're like me, then your Obsessive/Compulsive Personality (OCP) naturally means you have to keep absolutely all the packaging so you just can't part with this stuff. Now one manufacturer did offer the option at the checkout to not having the watch box included, but as I didn't get a discount for this option, well I'm certainly going to order it with the box! One extreme example in my opinion are Omega, with their Speedmaster Moon Watch Chronograph which is supplied with a huge trunk of a case. The thing is if you have to return the watch for repair or service, you are asked NOT to include the original watch box most of the time as it just takes up too much space - well we know that as we've got a cupboard full of the things at home! Now, I do like quality packaging and if you're buying a reasonably costly item, you want something nice to unpack, but lets be honest does a watch actually need a large wooden box, a leather covered display box, or would people feel shortchanged if they got their watch in a decent cardboard box, with say a leather slip case? Having just unboxed my new Marloe Watch Company, Coniston 'Speed Edition' which had a really quite awesome presentation box it is a bit of a dilemma - as I really enjoyed opening this up to reveal the watch, but it was a large box for a small item...what do people think, is there a variable compromise point?
Fitted straps - bracelets:
Inside many of my watch boxes, I have the OEM fitted bracelet, which I no longer use on the watch it came with, unfortunately as they are usually fitted so well to the watch head, you can't use these on another watch, so for me a fitted bracelet isn't a value added selling feature, now if it came with straight end links so it could be used with another watch of a similar lug size, that would be a plus point!
Exhibition case-backs:
Question - is there something worth exhibiting? If the watch has a Seiko NH3- whatever, or Miyota 8### then probably not! Why do many makers have a display case-back to show you it is fitted with something essentially uninteresting? At least if there was a custom rotor, or something that was visually attractive, then yes, I'd like to see it, but in many cases I'd sooner have a plain solid case-back. Is it more cost effective to have a display back as opposed to a solid stainless steel one?
Complications:
Of course here I'm talking about those; Day, Date, Moon phase, Month & Year elements and so on.
When there is a cutout in the dial face to show these, very rarely do I feel they are well integrated and just look out of place. Some are too small to read, so they compound the issue by adding a magnifier (cyclops). Don't get me wrong, if I really liked the watch I'd get it irrespective, but I really do hate having to tell the watch at the end of the month that there aren't 31 days. Of course as always, there can be elegant solutions that I really wouldn't mind, the date pointer with the days of the month around the perimeter of the dial (as in the Oris Big Crown Pointer Date) I really don't mind at all, even though I'd still end up with the month end issue.
Obviously the Day, once set can be forgotten, but they are usually large and unattractive. As for moon phase, quite often I can look at the sky and see this for myself at night, but have to say I can't ever remember thinking to myself "I wonder what phase the moon will be in today" not ever, perhaps if I was a werewolf or concerned about potential werewolf activity.....
As for Month & Year, well I might need reminding of the date, but even though I'm getting on a bit and slightly forgetful I certainly have yet to forget the actual Month and Year!
Had some contact questions about how I put on my NATO straps after I posted the wrist shot of the Phoibos Wave Master -"... were is a the excess strap gone from the side?" Basically I use what I believe is know as the 'Down Under' method. Sorry for the quality of the video, but this is the very first one I've ever done!
